Kimberly, I love your articles and especially enjoyed and laughed at Ms. America in this one. Americans are so nasty when they travel abroad. I don’t think most of them do any research and are always demanding shit- it’s embarrassing! When my daughter and I took the Heineken tour on a rainy day in Amsterdam a few years ago there was a family of obnoxious Americans. They were complaining about only getting 2 tickets for beer - this was a tour and they were generous to include 2 tixs for 2 full pints. The tour guide heard us talking and came over rolling his eyes and to talk - I could not associate myself with these clowns so I said we were Canadians. I was appalled. Had another incident in Italy. No wonder most Europeans have no desire to go to the U.S.
Hi Rose! Thank you so much for your comment, sweet praise and the Amsterdam story! I remember when I first traveled through Europe as a backpacker in the summer of 1990. There were so many American "bro boys" doing a year abroad between high school and college. It was prior Chunnel times, so I was on a ferry to Amsterdam from London actually and they were partying and vomiting all over the boat. It was so embarrassing and disgusting!! My travel partner and I were told to pin a Canadian flag on our backpacks but we didn't and I've never gone the route of claiming to be Canadian as that too is wrought with issues but I completely understand why you did!
I think, in a lot of ways, it's good for us (Americans who can behave) to see how people who can't act abroad. It's sobering.
Although, I will say that most Europeans I've met glamorize Los Angeles and want to go to California. (thanks Hollywood 🥺 for the unrealistic portrayal)!
Kimberly - your podcasts are very informative and presented in a fun manner. I went back to your first podcast and look forward to the information as I move through them from the beginning. I believe you said that you didn’t use a service to assist you in your move to Portugal you did everything through your own research, etc. If you don’t mind sharing what is a guesstimate of costs for your move. I’m planning to try and rent a furnished apartment for maybe the first year. I also was going to ask you if you had friends already in Portugal- I saw that you have a podcast on gaining community, which I’m sure will answer my question about meeting friends! Thanks, have a fabulous rest of the week/weekend! CHirz! 😀
Hi Rose, thank you so much! It's been a couple of weeks since I've been able to record and edit a new episode but I plan to release one next week!
I did not use a (relocation) service to assist in my move to Portugal, I did it all myself! I did have to use some professionals for a few legal issues though I would not recommend them! If I had to do it over again, I would do it very differently.
It's hard to guestimate the cost of my move now because: 1. I didn't have an apartment before I moved here. 2. Rents have quadrupled in the past 4 years.
You can still find something affordable but also know that you can rent a room in an apartment (as a roommate) in order to qualify for your D7 visa and then once you get here, you can find another apartment.
I didn't have friends in Portugal before moving here and I had never visited Portugal prior to moving here.
This is so eye-opening for me as a Brit in Porto with a number of American friends who are not at all as you describe - and this helps me understand why they too left the US and to a person say how happy they are to be here. I guess it just underlines the old ‘horses for courses’ idea, and while Portugal offers a home to many, it will also not suit so many others. And that’s also fine!
Hi Michelle, thank you so much for this comment! It's so interesting to hear your perspective as a Brit! I've never heard of that idiom "horses for courses" but will look it up now. Is it British? Like "more power to your elbow" which I recently learned and love! I think that there is usually more than one place a person can call "home". This is only based on my own experience and the experiences of my best friend who feels she has four homes at the moment (South Africa, Argentina, California and Montreal). What I learned traveling through the US for a year was that I could live pretty much anywhere but three places in particular stood out. I kind of love this concept but I know it's not for everyone. And in the end, the US was not for me (obviously).
‘Horses for courses’ is more like ‘different things suit different people’ - it’s a good phrase! It feels classically ‘British’ to me in a ‘live and let live’, ‘each to their own’ kind of way 😊 (although arguably the concept might need a bit of a revival - at least in some social media spaces 😬).
I have a feeling I will be wrestling with notions of home for a little while longer
I enjoyed your story. Unlike you, I feel my values were shaped very much by family growing up in New England. At the same time, entering professional life, I adapted to the pressures to perform and advance and found myself working nearly constantly. At one point, working in a medical environment, I worked for three years without vacation, generally 7 days a week. When we left the U.S. for Ireland I took this work culture with me and continued working long hours, even though those around me lived a strict M-F, 9-5 work week. It took me years to get the U.S. working culture out of my system.
As for values, what I would say is that I came to realise that they are not just personal attributes, those these are important too. In Europe, at least in the EU, those values are reflected in the constitutional regulations of the state, its social services, and its political life. We live more calmly and with a greater sense of peace and well-being living here (now in France) than we ever felt in the US with all its stressors and reasons to feel insecure.
I'm happy that you've also found such a place for you.
Hi John, thank you for your comment and the personal insights you shared! I can also somewhat relate to bringing the workaholism with us to wherever we move. I have been known to work long hours, 7 days a week her in Portugal too but eventually chose not to and I believe it was based on the culture here.
Working 7 days a week for 3 years with no vacation sounds difficult, even if you love what you do. I'm so glad to hear you no longer have to do that!
The values conversation really is ongoing, isn't it? You make very good points about how the values are reflected here in the EU as opposed to the US.
I'm thrilled to hear you're now living a calmer life too in France! 🤗🤗🤗
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE this!!! "I tried, I pretended and *pretzeled until I no longer could" - boy do I hear that!!
I will say though that, sadly, the rush-rush, money-money mentality is not relegated only to the US. People I've met while traveling who are from the UK and Canada and even an Albanian I met who had interned in the UK for a while say it's the same there. And in some places, it's even worse - like Japan, where they actually have a word for people who die on the job because it happens so often (Karoshi).
As you know, the first question we ask people we meet in the US is "What do you do?" so we can determine what their "value" is. It's disgusting. I've only had one person from Cambodia ask me how much I made when I worked in the US (it's not offensive to just outright ask that here and honestly, it's a bit more direct since that's really what we're asking when we ask someone about their job anyway!). Not surprisingly, she was one of the "richer" Khmer (with a BMW and properties she owns, etc).
And yes to this as well: "Sometimes I wonder if I hadn’t had this blatant consumerism and disregard for humanity modeled to me by my family and peers, if I would have stayed in America." Though very, VERY few, I have met some exceptions to this rule and that might be why I haven't 100% given up on it , YET- though I'm sure I will (for the umpteenth time!) once I go back and have it in my face again with all the "Miss America"s!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses!! That’s a really good point about Canada and the UK and probably other places too putting money first. I’ve had a quite a few conversations this past week with Portuguese people about how the Portuguese put love first, above everything else. I could get used to that.
I lived in Los Angeles for 15 years, and when I first moved there everyone was obsessed with what car I drove. It was insane. Also they are obsessed with their outward appearance..only! Now I only get asked what I do for a living when it is related to opening a bank account, or applying for my visa! Which is appropriate. I work on my farm, so technically I am a farmer, I know people in the US will turn their noses at that.. but I am happier than ever! I have never been to Portugal, but it sounds very similar to here.. Tranquilo!
You understand!!! I’m sorry this happened to you in LA but I think it makes us appreciate and understand the values we are more aligned to!
I’m going back to visit next week and I have so much anxiety because my family is still completely obsessed with all of this crap. I will be told I’m too thin or too fat or my hair is too gray or I don’t wear enough make-up or my clothes are not nice enough. I will be criticized for the Turo car I’m renting and the work I do in Portugal. They will find fault with me in every way, shape and form. But I know this is all their problem and not mine.
I love that you’re a “farmer”! That’s AMAZING!!! I have a close friend here from the US who also works on her farm. That is hard work!!! I envy it.
And yes, Portugal does sounds similar and I truly believe we are the fortunate ones to escape from the “rat race” :)
OMG yes this is why I havent gone back in over 4 years!! It is so toxic.. I hope it is not as bad as you predict! protect your energy!! yess we are so lucky to have escaped..
Hi Caroline! I just re-read this article last night, I'd forgotten I had actually written about that encounter with "Miss America", yay! hahaha.
I love reading your comment! WOW, I hope you can work toward moving here!! I made the leap at 56 but know many who have done it older including a woman who recently moved here in her 70's.
You're right about the shift and I still have those shifts when I travel within Europe but being on vacation (as you know) and day to day life are vastly different, even here.
I'm also glad to hear that Portugal is your favorite country in Europe! It's quite special.
I'm so glad to hear that your best friends live in Lisbon, that's fantastic!!
And yes if you can afford to purchase an apartment there and go back and forth (90 days in, 90 days out), you'll absolutely know what it's like to live here!
I think it's amazing you're the caretaker for both your parents, you must have a close, loving family.
Hi, thank you so much for your comment! I love hearing your experiences regarding your escape from Britain vs America.
Oooo, that's a great point about the lack of a take-away coffee culture!!! I hadn't noticed that but you're absolutely right. I also love that whenever I do take away coffee here they either don't offer a lid or the lid is cardboard/paper. I have also walked by a café at times to see someone I know sitting and they ask me to join and we have a lovely chat. I never experienced that in the US.
I haven't been to Cascais yet but Lisbon is amazing and I'm also hoping/planning to go south for the winter! Where do you go in the winters? I've been thrilled and surprised to find that this winter (so far) the weather has been super mind (15-20 degrees) in Porto! I really hope it stays this way!
Hi, yes there’s a train but I also have a car because I bring my dog. It’s definitely on my list but my last trip south was through the Algarve which was a long time coming! I’ll hit Cascais on my next trip down.
I will put that area of Lisbon on my list! Thank you for that :)
Yes I saw that you lived in France. My sister is moving to Toulouse soon so it’s also good to hear about places to go in France for the winter. I have a good friend in the Algarve I plan on staying with but I’m also looking for places other than Portugal; like Spain, and the Balkans, etc.
Kimberly, I love your articles and especially enjoyed and laughed at Ms. America in this one. Americans are so nasty when they travel abroad. I don’t think most of them do any research and are always demanding shit- it’s embarrassing! When my daughter and I took the Heineken tour on a rainy day in Amsterdam a few years ago there was a family of obnoxious Americans. They were complaining about only getting 2 tickets for beer - this was a tour and they were generous to include 2 tixs for 2 full pints. The tour guide heard us talking and came over rolling his eyes and to talk - I could not associate myself with these clowns so I said we were Canadians. I was appalled. Had another incident in Italy. No wonder most Europeans have no desire to go to the U.S.
Hi Rose! Thank you so much for your comment, sweet praise and the Amsterdam story! I remember when I first traveled through Europe as a backpacker in the summer of 1990. There were so many American "bro boys" doing a year abroad between high school and college. It was prior Chunnel times, so I was on a ferry to Amsterdam from London actually and they were partying and vomiting all over the boat. It was so embarrassing and disgusting!! My travel partner and I were told to pin a Canadian flag on our backpacks but we didn't and I've never gone the route of claiming to be Canadian as that too is wrought with issues but I completely understand why you did!
I think, in a lot of ways, it's good for us (Americans who can behave) to see how people who can't act abroad. It's sobering.
Although, I will say that most Europeans I've met glamorize Los Angeles and want to go to California. (thanks Hollywood 🥺 for the unrealistic portrayal)!
Thank you again for your comment Rose!!!
Kimberly - your podcasts are very informative and presented in a fun manner. I went back to your first podcast and look forward to the information as I move through them from the beginning. I believe you said that you didn’t use a service to assist you in your move to Portugal you did everything through your own research, etc. If you don’t mind sharing what is a guesstimate of costs for your move. I’m planning to try and rent a furnished apartment for maybe the first year. I also was going to ask you if you had friends already in Portugal- I saw that you have a podcast on gaining community, which I’m sure will answer my question about meeting friends! Thanks, have a fabulous rest of the week/weekend! CHirz! 😀
Hi Rose, thank you so much! It's been a couple of weeks since I've been able to record and edit a new episode but I plan to release one next week!
I did not use a (relocation) service to assist in my move to Portugal, I did it all myself! I did have to use some professionals for a few legal issues though I would not recommend them! If I had to do it over again, I would do it very differently.
It's hard to guestimate the cost of my move now because: 1. I didn't have an apartment before I moved here. 2. Rents have quadrupled in the past 4 years.
You can still find something affordable but also know that you can rent a room in an apartment (as a roommate) in order to qualify for your D7 visa and then once you get here, you can find another apartment.
I didn't have friends in Portugal before moving here and I had never visited Portugal prior to moving here.
I have two articles about finding community and one podcast episode (so far). Here's the most recent article: https://expatonabudget.substack.com/p/goodbye-usa-im-not-coming-back-community?r=9fb7x
I hope you have a fabulous weekend as well!!
This is so eye-opening for me as a Brit in Porto with a number of American friends who are not at all as you describe - and this helps me understand why they too left the US and to a person say how happy they are to be here. I guess it just underlines the old ‘horses for courses’ idea, and while Portugal offers a home to many, it will also not suit so many others. And that’s also fine!
Hi Michelle, thank you so much for this comment! It's so interesting to hear your perspective as a Brit! I've never heard of that idiom "horses for courses" but will look it up now. Is it British? Like "more power to your elbow" which I recently learned and love! I think that there is usually more than one place a person can call "home". This is only based on my own experience and the experiences of my best friend who feels she has four homes at the moment (South Africa, Argentina, California and Montreal). What I learned traveling through the US for a year was that I could live pretty much anywhere but three places in particular stood out. I kind of love this concept but I know it's not for everyone. And in the end, the US was not for me (obviously).
‘Horses for courses’ is more like ‘different things suit different people’ - it’s a good phrase! It feels classically ‘British’ to me in a ‘live and let live’, ‘each to their own’ kind of way 😊 (although arguably the concept might need a bit of a revival - at least in some social media spaces 😬).
I have a feeling I will be wrestling with notions of home for a little while longer
I enjoyed your story. Unlike you, I feel my values were shaped very much by family growing up in New England. At the same time, entering professional life, I adapted to the pressures to perform and advance and found myself working nearly constantly. At one point, working in a medical environment, I worked for three years without vacation, generally 7 days a week. When we left the U.S. for Ireland I took this work culture with me and continued working long hours, even though those around me lived a strict M-F, 9-5 work week. It took me years to get the U.S. working culture out of my system.
As for values, what I would say is that I came to realise that they are not just personal attributes, those these are important too. In Europe, at least in the EU, those values are reflected in the constitutional regulations of the state, its social services, and its political life. We live more calmly and with a greater sense of peace and well-being living here (now in France) than we ever felt in the US with all its stressors and reasons to feel insecure.
I'm happy that you've also found such a place for you.
Hi John, thank you for your comment and the personal insights you shared! I can also somewhat relate to bringing the workaholism with us to wherever we move. I have been known to work long hours, 7 days a week her in Portugal too but eventually chose not to and I believe it was based on the culture here.
Working 7 days a week for 3 years with no vacation sounds difficult, even if you love what you do. I'm so glad to hear you no longer have to do that!
The values conversation really is ongoing, isn't it? You make very good points about how the values are reflected here in the EU as opposed to the US.
I'm thrilled to hear you're now living a calmer life too in France! 🤗🤗🤗
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE this!!! "I tried, I pretended and *pretzeled until I no longer could" - boy do I hear that!!
I will say though that, sadly, the rush-rush, money-money mentality is not relegated only to the US. People I've met while traveling who are from the UK and Canada and even an Albanian I met who had interned in the UK for a while say it's the same there. And in some places, it's even worse - like Japan, where they actually have a word for people who die on the job because it happens so often (Karoshi).
As you know, the first question we ask people we meet in the US is "What do you do?" so we can determine what their "value" is. It's disgusting. I've only had one person from Cambodia ask me how much I made when I worked in the US (it's not offensive to just outright ask that here and honestly, it's a bit more direct since that's really what we're asking when we ask someone about their job anyway!). Not surprisingly, she was one of the "richer" Khmer (with a BMW and properties she owns, etc).
And yes to this as well: "Sometimes I wonder if I hadn’t had this blatant consumerism and disregard for humanity modeled to me by my family and peers, if I would have stayed in America." Though very, VERY few, I have met some exceptions to this rule and that might be why I haven't 100% given up on it , YET- though I'm sure I will (for the umpteenth time!) once I go back and have it in my face again with all the "Miss America"s!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses!! That’s a really good point about Canada and the UK and probably other places too putting money first. I’ve had a quite a few conversations this past week with Portuguese people about how the Portuguese put love first, above everything else. I could get used to that.
That is SO beautiful! It fills my heart with joy hearing that you've found such a loving place to live. You deserve it dear friend.❤️
Awwww, hugs!!! Thank you!!!
I lived in Los Angeles for 15 years, and when I first moved there everyone was obsessed with what car I drove. It was insane. Also they are obsessed with their outward appearance..only! Now I only get asked what I do for a living when it is related to opening a bank account, or applying for my visa! Which is appropriate. I work on my farm, so technically I am a farmer, I know people in the US will turn their noses at that.. but I am happier than ever! I have never been to Portugal, but it sounds very similar to here.. Tranquilo!
You understand!!! I’m sorry this happened to you in LA but I think it makes us appreciate and understand the values we are more aligned to!
I’m going back to visit next week and I have so much anxiety because my family is still completely obsessed with all of this crap. I will be told I’m too thin or too fat or my hair is too gray or I don’t wear enough make-up or my clothes are not nice enough. I will be criticized for the Turo car I’m renting and the work I do in Portugal. They will find fault with me in every way, shape and form. But I know this is all their problem and not mine.
I love that you’re a “farmer”! That’s AMAZING!!! I have a close friend here from the US who also works on her farm. That is hard work!!! I envy it.
And yes, Portugal does sounds similar and I truly believe we are the fortunate ones to escape from the “rat race” :)
OMG yes this is why I havent gone back in over 4 years!! It is so toxic.. I hope it is not as bad as you predict! protect your energy!! yess we are so lucky to have escaped..
WOW, four years!!! Nice!!! I'm super envious!!! If it wasn't for my mother, I would not go back at all, but she's 85 and can't travel :(
I know it will be bad but I've decided to embrace the sun, some good friends, AND THE FOOD!!!! I WILL EAT EVERYTHING!!! :)
ooh I do love the food in LA!!! You will have an amazing time.
Thank you. It's not going to be great because of the drama, but YES, the food!!! Mmmmmm!!!!
Hi Caroline! I just re-read this article last night, I'd forgotten I had actually written about that encounter with "Miss America", yay! hahaha.
I love reading your comment! WOW, I hope you can work toward moving here!! I made the leap at 56 but know many who have done it older including a woman who recently moved here in her 70's.
You're right about the shift and I still have those shifts when I travel within Europe but being on vacation (as you know) and day to day life are vastly different, even here.
I'm also glad to hear that Portugal is your favorite country in Europe! It's quite special.
Hi Caroline! I subscribed to you :)
I'm so glad to hear that your best friends live in Lisbon, that's fantastic!!
And yes if you can afford to purchase an apartment there and go back and forth (90 days in, 90 days out), you'll absolutely know what it's like to live here!
I think it's amazing you're the caretaker for both your parents, you must have a close, loving family.
Please do reach out when you're in Porto!
🥰🥰🥰
Thank you Caroline! Yes, people here are amazing 🥰 I hope you have a great day too!
Hi, thank you so much for your comment! I love hearing your experiences regarding your escape from Britain vs America.
Oooo, that's a great point about the lack of a take-away coffee culture!!! I hadn't noticed that but you're absolutely right. I also love that whenever I do take away coffee here they either don't offer a lid or the lid is cardboard/paper. I have also walked by a café at times to see someone I know sitting and they ask me to join and we have a lovely chat. I never experienced that in the US.
I haven't been to Cascais yet but Lisbon is amazing and I'm also hoping/planning to go south for the winter! Where do you go in the winters? I've been thrilled and surprised to find that this winter (so far) the weather has been super mind (15-20 degrees) in Porto! I really hope it stays this way!
Hi, yes there’s a train but I also have a car because I bring my dog. It’s definitely on my list but my last trip south was through the Algarve which was a long time coming! I’ll hit Cascais on my next trip down.
I will put that area of Lisbon on my list! Thank you for that :)
Yes I saw that you lived in France. My sister is moving to Toulouse soon so it’s also good to hear about places to go in France for the winter. I have a good friend in the Algarve I plan on staying with but I’m also looking for places other than Portugal; like Spain, and the Balkans, etc.