This is all substantially true, and there’s more: here in San Francisco over one third of the National Institutes for Health contracts have been summarily impounded- think AIDS, Hep C, and drug resistant TB. I have a friend in New York who is now no longer able to access her life- saving cancer immunotherapy trials due to “funding uncertainties” and is forced to spend money flying to Mexico repeatedly. This government simply does not understand how public health works.
Thank you for your comment. That's horrible to hear about the NIH's impounded contracts!! I imagine it's also affecting work sectors like yours and other health employees who are probably losing their jobs.
I wonder if it's better for your NY friend to just move to Mexico?
And I think it's more that this government doesn't care how public health works. As someone recently mentioned, it's better for them (the über rich) if millions of people just die. I truly believe that's part of their end-game. So perhaps they do understand how public health works and are dismantling it on purpose. I know the new Hitler has a personal vendetta against California. The U.S. is being run by 5 year olds having playground meltdowns that are costing people's lives.
Wow - I can't imagine going to the Pharmacy and someone not only really looking at my prescription but taking the time to offer a better one?! Sounds unreal!
We were warned to avoid the public healthcare in Portugal but with our first medical topic, our private healthcare doctor told us to go to the public hospital for free medicine. Even though we did not have a citizens card, we left with free, two-month supply of medication. In the US with insurance, the cost is $3k monthly. We see doctors in private and public hospitals now and they are equally efficient & professional.
I have constantly considered going for the D7 visa in Portugal for years. What has stopped me? Climate change. Europe is the fastest warming continent on the planet and its water pipes are old and leaky, contributing to water shortages. Parts of southern Canada (where I can’t stay) and the northern U.S. are the best places in the world to be for climate change. I know that Portugal and Spain have been suffering wildfires. I would really appreciate your take on living with climate change in Europe.
Hi, I don't think anywhere is safe. There are certainly less wildfires in the northern areas of Portugal and Spain as it's quite wet here. It rains 8-10 months a year in Porto but we still had a wildfire last September.
However, living in Northern California I made it through more wildfires than I can count. My electricity and water was turned off for weeks at a time to keep the energy company from causing more fires. I had to sleep in a down parka and cook on a camp stove inside my apartment.
So in contrast, I experience a significantly better life here. There's no comparison.
There's also no escaping climate change. It will continue to worsen, especially now that the current chief in the US is doing away with all preventative measures. That tells me it will worsen in the US without any help as FEMA is being systematically dismantled. I just have to take one look at the recent tragedy in Texas to feel even safer than I already do outside of America. But that's just me. Everyone who chooses to stay has their reasons!
When my husband and I arrived in Portugal, we heard the term "healthcare refugee" with respect to US citizens relocating to Europe. He’s in his late 50s, got a damaged back, has been through lots of medical exams, and when his Portuguese podiatrist saw him walk across the room he said, "one leg is shorter than the other." The doctor was correct, and no one in the States caught it!
We have lived in Cuenca, Ecuador for five and a half years, and have had one big medical challenge, why is enough to instill confidence in the very adorable system. We both worked in healthcare in the U.S. for 30+ years, enough to know it was a very flawed system. But as a retired medical professional who also listens to fellow expats expound on their experiences, I will tell you that many expats here, enamored by the excellent and low cost care, absolutely LOVE to go to the doctor for every little ache and pain. And the doctors are more than happy to run LOTS of tests, many of which seem unnecessary to me (doctor). True, in the U.S. I attempted to shield patients from unnecessary testing to save them money. It really wasn’t my style to run tests just to CMA (cover my ass) because my clinical skills were excellent. I feel that some of the doctors here have poor clinical skills (example from a friend: what did your doctor say? Oh, she didn’t really know what was going on, but she sent me for a bunch of tests to find out). That’s not how to practice medicine. I feel that there is probably a generation of doctors who don’t even touch a patient, or perform an in depth history and physical. They just ponder and order tests. Headaches? We should get an MRI! Cannot sleep? We should run 80 lab tests, and look, your calcium is low, that must be the issue, so here is a prescription for a calcium supplement. I see this here over, and over, and over. So getting a doctor in a low cost system to run hundreds of useless tests, which often confuses both the doctor, and certainly the patient, is in my opinion, not the best practice 🙄
Hi Marshall! Thank you so much for your thorough comment, especially coming from a doctor!!! I can absolutely see what you're saying and I have experienced a bit of that here as well. My doctors only ran all the tests when I first arrived but now they run less each year, unless there's an issue. But there WAS an issue. It turns out I have SEVERE Osteoporosis (the bones of an 85 yo in my mid-50's) but my doctors in the US never bothered to give me a DEXA. This was a very big wake up call for me here. They also never bothered with a colonoscopy and other tests that can save people's lives if issues are caught early. But not only did they "never bother", when I asked for these tests in the US, they said NO!
I think it can be a double edged sword, no?
We get some knowledgeable doctors here, I'd say more so in the US but their hands are tied.
Oh no!!! Thank you so much for posting this Lori and I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm also surprised as I was led to believe the public and private systems there were quite good. Does it have to do with the city you're located in? I'm also surprised to hear your healthcare in the US wasn't abysmal! The only people I know of personally that like their healthcare in the U.S. are multi-millionaires who have no problem paying hundreds of thousands out of pocket for everything they need.
I hope there's a way to alleviate this issue there soon!!!
I enjoyed reading your article. As a European who has lived in the US for 30 years and is going to head back, the US system always blew my mind. The lack of preventative care alone….
Hi and thank you for your comment! I often wonder what it's like for people such as yourself who've made the opposite move. Especially Europeans! Where are you moving back to?
I think it was very foreign when I first arrived in the US. One huge differentiator is that back then I was 1. Young 2. Young and healthy and then transitioned into jobs with excellent healthcare coverage. But I remember vividly sitting with my neighbor after she had a double mastectomy on a shitty health plan and she was telling me she had to choose between the out of pocket costs for her pain killers and feeding her young kids. I was 25 years old at the time, making less than 300 bucks a week working as a journalist and my brain COULD not comprehend what I was hearing. But, bless all the gods and goddesses, I have been never directly affected myself.
As we have gotten older here - knock on wood still VERY HEALTHY - it is abundantly clear aging in America will be….not good - also considering all else going on…just wrote a little post about that. Our plan right now is an adventure. 2 years at least 8 regions to figure out where want to land. :)
Wow, hearing about your neighbor is heartbreaking and also the norm in the U.S. but strangely many (I could even say most) citizens there have no idea how much better healthcare is in other parts of the world. I can say this because I was one of those people. I know of some über rich who aged out in America quite well but they were all multi-millionaires and could pay the $$$$$$$$$ required.
Oh I love your plan, I can't wait to follow along!
Agreed. Americans generally have a strange idea about what government should and should not provide for the taxes we pay in…access to healthcare for everyone shouldn’t be a privilege of the employed or rich.
AGREED!!!! But when you grow up in a system that doesn't have universal healthcare, you don't know it even exists, not really. It's more of a concept rather than a reality.
So glad to hear that Portugal's medical system has been so good to you, Kimberly. Sounds like you've got a great thing going with your pharmacist! The cost of the US medical system are so scary. I'm so sorry to hear about the friends you've lost to it. Thank you for raising these important points!
I’ve recently moved to Italy with my husband who has dual citizenship. Over the years when visiting, I’ve been amazed by the quality of care for simple things I’ve received from the local pharmacist and the cost of medications compared to the US. I believe that the BB is darker even that we understand. The conservatives want to 1. Kill off the “unproductive” and 2. Keep workers tied to corporations rather than being entrepreneurs or self employed. It’s disgusting. We currently have health care through my former civil service employment (part of my retirement). It’s considered a top tier plan and for the two of us costs $500/month. But the level of begging for services, wait times and lack of solid preventive orientation to health care makes me wonder about keeping it. But I’m terrified to let it go because once I do, I can’t get it back. Oh and BTW, there is an MRI company in the IS that will do them without a referral for $700 (non contrast). It’s a for profit business and that tells you that this service can be done easily and inexpensively. Many people’s quality of life would be improved with a simple MRI that would give them more information on how to proceed with a pain issue or other injury. Instead US people are forced into chronic pain and chronic injury management.
Hi Laura! Thank you so much for your comment. You've provided some super interesting information! I didn't know about the MRI company, though $700 is a far cry from €17, which is what I pay here.
I love that you've moved to Italy!!
I know that a lot of people are afraid to let go of a medicare "thing" in the US that I don't understand but $500/mo for two people for your health care seems reasonable if you may return.
I know I'll never live in the US again (though I should never say never) because now that I've had a taste of what life can really be like, I can't go back to being a "caged animal" there.
Yes and I would love to know your contact, I will have travel insurance for the first month but will need to get something established ASAP so I can get my medications ordered. I do plan on getting Concierge service as well to start with since I will be learning the language as I go.
We just moved to Lisbon and found your latest post most reassuring. Thanks for sharing this information.
Hi Molly! Welcome and thank you, I'm so happy to hear :)
This is all substantially true, and there’s more: here in San Francisco over one third of the National Institutes for Health contracts have been summarily impounded- think AIDS, Hep C, and drug resistant TB. I have a friend in New York who is now no longer able to access her life- saving cancer immunotherapy trials due to “funding uncertainties” and is forced to spend money flying to Mexico repeatedly. This government simply does not understand how public health works.
Hi Dirk!!!
Thank you for your comment. That's horrible to hear about the NIH's impounded contracts!! I imagine it's also affecting work sectors like yours and other health employees who are probably losing their jobs.
I wonder if it's better for your NY friend to just move to Mexico?
And I think it's more that this government doesn't care how public health works. As someone recently mentioned, it's better for them (the über rich) if millions of people just die. I truly believe that's part of their end-game. So perhaps they do understand how public health works and are dismantling it on purpose. I know the new Hitler has a personal vendetta against California. The U.S. is being run by 5 year olds having playground meltdowns that are costing people's lives.
Hi
Wow - I can't imagine going to the Pharmacy and someone not only really looking at my prescription but taking the time to offer a better one?! Sounds unreal!
ha, yeah, it’s often “pinch me” time here!
We were warned to avoid the public healthcare in Portugal but with our first medical topic, our private healthcare doctor told us to go to the public hospital for free medicine. Even though we did not have a citizens card, we left with free, two-month supply of medication. In the US with insurance, the cost is $3k monthly. We see doctors in private and public hospitals now and they are equally efficient & professional.
I have constantly considered going for the D7 visa in Portugal for years. What has stopped me? Climate change. Europe is the fastest warming continent on the planet and its water pipes are old and leaky, contributing to water shortages. Parts of southern Canada (where I can’t stay) and the northern U.S. are the best places in the world to be for climate change. I know that Portugal and Spain have been suffering wildfires. I would really appreciate your take on living with climate change in Europe.
Hi, I don't think anywhere is safe. There are certainly less wildfires in the northern areas of Portugal and Spain as it's quite wet here. It rains 8-10 months a year in Porto but we still had a wildfire last September.
However, living in Northern California I made it through more wildfires than I can count. My electricity and water was turned off for weeks at a time to keep the energy company from causing more fires. I had to sleep in a down parka and cook on a camp stove inside my apartment.
So in contrast, I experience a significantly better life here. There's no comparison.
There's also no escaping climate change. It will continue to worsen, especially now that the current chief in the US is doing away with all preventative measures. That tells me it will worsen in the US without any help as FEMA is being systematically dismantled. I just have to take one look at the recent tragedy in Texas to feel even safer than I already do outside of America. But that's just me. Everyone who chooses to stay has their reasons!
Thank you, I appreciate your response.
When my husband and I arrived in Portugal, we heard the term "healthcare refugee" with respect to US citizens relocating to Europe. He’s in his late 50s, got a damaged back, has been through lots of medical exams, and when his Portuguese podiatrist saw him walk across the room he said, "one leg is shorter than the other." The doctor was correct, and no one in the States caught it!
Hi Elaine, wow, I've never heard that term before.
Re: your husband, I'm so glad to hear that the Portuguese podiatrist caught what doctors in the US couldn't!!!!
We have lived in Cuenca, Ecuador for five and a half years, and have had one big medical challenge, why is enough to instill confidence in the very adorable system. We both worked in healthcare in the U.S. for 30+ years, enough to know it was a very flawed system. But as a retired medical professional who also listens to fellow expats expound on their experiences, I will tell you that many expats here, enamored by the excellent and low cost care, absolutely LOVE to go to the doctor for every little ache and pain. And the doctors are more than happy to run LOTS of tests, many of which seem unnecessary to me (doctor). True, in the U.S. I attempted to shield patients from unnecessary testing to save them money. It really wasn’t my style to run tests just to CMA (cover my ass) because my clinical skills were excellent. I feel that some of the doctors here have poor clinical skills (example from a friend: what did your doctor say? Oh, she didn’t really know what was going on, but she sent me for a bunch of tests to find out). That’s not how to practice medicine. I feel that there is probably a generation of doctors who don’t even touch a patient, or perform an in depth history and physical. They just ponder and order tests. Headaches? We should get an MRI! Cannot sleep? We should run 80 lab tests, and look, your calcium is low, that must be the issue, so here is a prescription for a calcium supplement. I see this here over, and over, and over. So getting a doctor in a low cost system to run hundreds of useless tests, which often confuses both the doctor, and certainly the patient, is in my opinion, not the best practice 🙄
Hi Marshall! Thank you so much for your thorough comment, especially coming from a doctor!!! I can absolutely see what you're saying and I have experienced a bit of that here as well. My doctors only ran all the tests when I first arrived but now they run less each year, unless there's an issue. But there WAS an issue. It turns out I have SEVERE Osteoporosis (the bones of an 85 yo in my mid-50's) but my doctors in the US never bothered to give me a DEXA. This was a very big wake up call for me here. They also never bothered with a colonoscopy and other tests that can save people's lives if issues are caught early. But not only did they "never bother", when I asked for these tests in the US, they said NO!
I think it can be a double edged sword, no?
We get some knowledgeable doctors here, I'd say more so in the US but their hands are tied.
My healthcare in Sweden is abysmal compared to how my US healthcare was. I wish my experience was closer to yours in Portugal!
Oh no!!! Thank you so much for posting this Lori and I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm also surprised as I was led to believe the public and private systems there were quite good. Does it have to do with the city you're located in? I'm also surprised to hear your healthcare in the US wasn't abysmal! The only people I know of personally that like their healthcare in the U.S. are multi-millionaires who have no problem paying hundreds of thousands out of pocket for everything they need.
I hope there's a way to alleviate this issue there soon!!!
I enjoyed reading your article. As a European who has lived in the US for 30 years and is going to head back, the US system always blew my mind. The lack of preventative care alone….
The people who don't want their taxes paying for universal healthcare are the ones that don't go to the doctor by choice. It's quite awful.
Yes, sadly, they don't understand proving that ignorance is NOT bliss!
Hi and thank you for your comment! I often wonder what it's like for people such as yourself who've made the opposite move. Especially Europeans! Where are you moving back to?
I think it was very foreign when I first arrived in the US. One huge differentiator is that back then I was 1. Young 2. Young and healthy and then transitioned into jobs with excellent healthcare coverage. But I remember vividly sitting with my neighbor after she had a double mastectomy on a shitty health plan and she was telling me she had to choose between the out of pocket costs for her pain killers and feeding her young kids. I was 25 years old at the time, making less than 300 bucks a week working as a journalist and my brain COULD not comprehend what I was hearing. But, bless all the gods and goddesses, I have been never directly affected myself.
As we have gotten older here - knock on wood still VERY HEALTHY - it is abundantly clear aging in America will be….not good - also considering all else going on…just wrote a little post about that. Our plan right now is an adventure. 2 years at least 8 regions to figure out where want to land. :)
Wow, hearing about your neighbor is heartbreaking and also the norm in the U.S. but strangely many (I could even say most) citizens there have no idea how much better healthcare is in other parts of the world. I can say this because I was one of those people. I know of some über rich who aged out in America quite well but they were all multi-millionaires and could pay the $$$$$$$$$ required.
Oh I love your plan, I can't wait to follow along!
Am subscribing :)
By the way: we have two doggos:-)
I love that you have dogs, I'm a fan! I brought one pup over to Portugal.
Ohhhh! A subscriber! How exciting!
Agreed. Americans generally have a strange idea about what government should and should not provide for the taxes we pay in…access to healthcare for everyone shouldn’t be a privilege of the employed or rich.
AGREED!!!! But when you grow up in a system that doesn't have universal healthcare, you don't know it even exists, not really. It's more of a concept rather than a reality.
I’ve had a very similar experience here in Thailand. Your experience has inspired me to share my experience as well. Thanks for sharing yours.
Looking forward to reading it!
So glad to hear that Portugal's medical system has been so good to you, Kimberly. Sounds like you've got a great thing going with your pharmacist! The cost of the US medical system are so scary. I'm so sorry to hear about the friends you've lost to it. Thank you for raising these important points!
Hi Kaila!!!! Thank you so much for your comment!! I hear the medical system in Spain is wonderful too!!!
Yes so do I! Thankfully ☺️
I’ve recently moved to Italy with my husband who has dual citizenship. Over the years when visiting, I’ve been amazed by the quality of care for simple things I’ve received from the local pharmacist and the cost of medications compared to the US. I believe that the BB is darker even that we understand. The conservatives want to 1. Kill off the “unproductive” and 2. Keep workers tied to corporations rather than being entrepreneurs or self employed. It’s disgusting. We currently have health care through my former civil service employment (part of my retirement). It’s considered a top tier plan and for the two of us costs $500/month. But the level of begging for services, wait times and lack of solid preventive orientation to health care makes me wonder about keeping it. But I’m terrified to let it go because once I do, I can’t get it back. Oh and BTW, there is an MRI company in the IS that will do them without a referral for $700 (non contrast). It’s a for profit business and that tells you that this service can be done easily and inexpensively. Many people’s quality of life would be improved with a simple MRI that would give them more information on how to proceed with a pain issue or other injury. Instead US people are forced into chronic pain and chronic injury management.
Hi Laura! Thank you so much for your comment. You've provided some super interesting information! I didn't know about the MRI company, though $700 is a far cry from €17, which is what I pay here.
I love that you've moved to Italy!!
I know that a lot of people are afraid to let go of a medicare "thing" in the US that I don't understand but $500/mo for two people for your health care seems reasonable if you may return.
I know I'll never live in the US again (though I should never say never) because now that I've had a taste of what life can really be like, I can't go back to being a "caged animal" there.
I am moving soon and would love to know who you use for your private Healthcare insurance
Are you moving to Portugal? I’d rather recommend a professional to help you navigate. She doesn’t charge.
Yes and I would love to know your contact, I will have travel insurance for the first month but will need to get something established ASAP so I can get my medications ordered. I do plan on getting Concierge service as well to start with since I will be learning the language as I go.
I'll DM you!!!
Aww thanks Rich and you’re welcome!
Hi Lauren, yes agreed and I have trouble calling it by it's ridiculous, click-bait, untrue/unreal name as well.